This is a topic that has been on my mind for some time. I actually started this post back in July, but real life issues and laziness got the better of me and I abandoned it. I decided to revisit it based on some recent kerfuffles in Blogland. Most notably this one at The Story Siren. Which I find interesting because I’m pretty sure what sparked this idea for me back in July was a similar incident at The Story Siren. I could be wrong about that, however. I’m too lazy to go back and look.
While the web is world-wide, our little corner of it here in Romanceland is relatively small. You can’t turn a corner without running into someone you “know”. I love that about our community. I love that just by visiting a long favorite haunt I can discover 10 new places to visit, who turn out to be visitors of my site or others I know. It’s a never ending circle, one I appreciate.
But the down side is that we also see a lot of repeat topics. I know for a fact some of the things we’ve blogged about here have been repeated throughout the community – sometimes in direct relation, but more often than not because someone else just happened to have the same idea as us. Great minds do think alike, after all.
I also know for a fact that we’ve repeated things that were talked about long before we arrived on the scene. Sometimes intentionally, others not. Naturally when an idea is sparked by something we saw elsewhere we try to give credit, but there are honestly times when we didn’t realize a topic had already been discussed. And I guess that’s the beauty of the web..we can all offer our own opinion or slant on the same topic over and over again.
Having said that, there are times when I wonder about professional courtesy. Or, to be more specific, giving a nod to someone when something they posted sparks an idea inside of you.
I am not talking about those blogs that blatantly steal content from others (i.e., copy/pasting word for word), but the ones who seem to post about things others are talking about a little too often, without ever offering credit to another.
This isn’t something that can be proven. As I said above, the web is world-wide. And even if our corner here is small, it’s still large enough that I know there are blogs I don’t know about, or read on a regular basis. Add Twitter and Facebook into the mix and the potential for like-minded individuals to have similar ideas is huge.
But sometimes you just know. You see a topic mentioned on Twitter or Facebook, or you see a post on a blog you frequent, and you just know a certain blogger is going to have it on their site, without acknowledging where the conversation stemmed from, basically passing it off as their own idea. I’ve even seen some bloggers get angry that ideas they stole from somewhere else got stolen from them. If that isn’t the height of hypocrisy, I don’t know what is.
But I digress. The point is, where do we draw the line? I could easily take something I see on Twitter or one of the 300+ romance related blogs I subscribe to in Google Reader (not that I actually read them all, you understand, but I do subscribe) and turn it into a blog post of my own, without acknowledging where the idea came from.
But I don’t. Instead I always (or almost always..sometimes I forget where I heard it and then I say, “I can’t remember where I saw this…”) link back to the original source, or at least mention their name. Just as a professional courtesy. We aren’t required to do this (though I wonder if we won’t be at some point in the future) but I believe in giving credit where credit is due.
But what about those people who don’t? There’s one fairly prominent blogger who often takes ideas from others and passes them off as their own. I know it’s blatant because everyone has noticed and/or commented on it. I’ve considered bringing it up, but without solid proof it’s hard. I wouldn’t want someone to accuse me of stealing ideas just because I posted something someone else did.
Besides, many topics here in Romanceland are recycled, so often it’s hard to say just where it was taken from. I know I’ve seen other blogs post things we blogged about a year or two ago. Who the hell has time to read through every blog in Romanceland, including archives, before posting about something? Of course in this case I’m talking about topics that were posted an hour ago, or a day ago, not a year ago. But still.
So..is there a line? Is it just up to each individual and their own personal moral code? If you just know someone is passing off others ideas as their own, do you say something? Stop following/reading that person’s blog? Do nothing at all?
Curious minds and all that…
I think it’s hard to know — giving credit is always great on the internet, but because the community is so small, a blog author might just assume that everyone knows why that particular topic is on her mind.
It’s always awesome to link, though — if, of course, you can remember where you first saw the info.
Ha, and now I’m dying to know who the prominent blogger that is always stealing topics is. 😀
Agree with Meljean–as a blog reader, I tend to perceive similar posts as “related” if you will…either an extension of an offline conversation two or more bloggers were already having or a simple building upon the thoughts of one another. Honestly, it’s never occurred to me 1) that one blogger simply copied another or 2) that any one blogger is especially proprietary about topic (site design, buttons, etc., yes, but not discussion topics).
I don’t think I’m naive. I just think that because my blog-reading is for fun (meaning that it is often ‘squeezed in’), I’m not overly analytical about it. I don’t pay enough attention to detail (or retain enough of it) to spot copycats.
All that is as a blog reader. Now, as a blog author, I think I’m pretty good about getting permission, giving credit or explaining how another influenced my post(s). Not exactly hard though, cuz I stick close to just reviews and misc about my personal life. Still, it happens and you’re absolutely right. Give credit or, in some cases, just don’t go there at all.
As a girl, LOL, I’ll admit. Sometimes I think mean thoughts. Like get off it already (when more than one or two folks are yakkin up the same thing). Or who cares? (cuz again I’m weary of seeing the same thing repeated) And now I feel just awful for having lumped innocent original-idea bloggers in with lazy copy-and-paste ones.
Ah, I just read the link. In that case, where it sounds like someone took the format and content from someone else, that’s definitely bad etiquette. And if someone copies the format of a post (like, for example, I used Carolyn Crane’s awesome Last Night’s Reading thing) a hat tip is ALWAYS appropriate.
On the other hand, I saw mention of wish lists on sidebars — if the title of the wish list is exactly the same and unique, a hat tip might be appropriate. But the wish list idea itself? C’mon.
@Meljean,
I remember a blog several years back (don’t think the site even exists anymore) who claimed to be the first one to ever post hot mantitty on the web. They would get downright catty if someone else did the same w/o acknowledging them. Wasn’t until years later that they FINALLY realized they weren’t the first – or only – site to do that. Total “c’mon” moment for me there.
I agree a hat tip is appropriate in most cases. I guess I just wonder about those who are obviously trying to pass something off as their own, rather than saying “hey, so and so mentioned”…Is it really that big of a deal to say you got the idea from elsewhere?
This is an interesting topic.
Personally, my blog gets about 50-70 hits a day. So I don’t think I’m getting a lot of traffic. But, like you Holly, I subscribe to a ton of blogs. And sure, sometimes a blog topic sparks something I want to talk about on my blog. But I always try to do a link-back or a shout out. It’s courtesy, which shouldn’t be dead.
That being said, unless you’ve put a patent on an idea, you don’t really own it. Soooo, while it’s bad form, and bad manners, I’m not sure it’s something that I’m likely to get my knickers in a bunch about.
And like Meljean, the Nosy Nellie in me is dying to know who the blogger is. 😉
I usually link to show the context of my thinking anyway – the idea being that my (very small no of) readers may want to read what others have been saying on the same topic.
I want to know who that big blogger is too!
I agree that people should give credit. I know when I did the Winsor lists, I hosted it on my blog for Maili, but it was her (and Sonomalass’s) idea on twitter and I felt it was important to make that clear.
I think there are some tough cases, though. Once on Twitter I actually “called” a topic, kind of as a joke, but I wanted to test the waters and see if anyone had an objection to me blogging about something several of us were discussing. I feel there’s a little bit of an issue with taking something someone says in a moment of abandon on twitter and quoting them and crafting a blog post around it.
Another issue for me is when to do my own blog post. I honestly, I do feel that if there is a long thread that is ongoing about a topic, it is not ok for me to start my own topic on my blog until that thread dies down. I always feel, when I see pingbacks from others who have done this, that it’s a little like stealing the thunder. I feel like I ought to just join in the original conversation.
Then there is the issue of people who leave incredibly long meandering blog comments. what the hell are we going to do with them? 😉
And sure, sometimes a blog topic sparks something I want to talk about on my blog.
I think that is a perfect example of recycled.
So if you see a topic on another blog, should you comment on it or start your own post and throw in some links? I think it depends on how strongly you feel about the topic. I also don’t think it’s wrong to recycle a topic. It’s not as if you’re plagiarizing. Still, a hat tip is always nice.
The bloggers that annoy me are the ones that blatantly recycle topics (again–that’s okay imo), pretend like they’re the the first to blog about that topic and then get their panties in a twist when someone else blogs about that same topic.
Hello, hypocrisy.
Rowena – I’m certainly no expert, but I say no. A meme is by it’s very nature something that people WANT you to copy and paste and continue. I think you give credit the first time, and then you’re good.
But, I’m certainly no expert.
I always try and give credit where credit is due. If I see a link on someone’s blog or someone who mentions something on twitter, I will post their blog or their name.
But there are no rules to blogging and the blog world is huge! You can’t police every blog.
Recently I started a post called WTFckery or Not. Now, if I saw another blog do something much like I have done, I would wonder if they saw my post and decided to do their own. I would probably let it slide because for all I know, they came up with it themselves and don’t know that my blog exists.
The other day I posted in my WTFckery post about a new site I just found. Surprisingly another well know blog/site mentioned how much they liked the site on a post on their blog. I also know they read my posts. I couldn’t help but wonder if they saw it on my blog. They didn’t mention, hey kids, I found this ala KB, but again it could just be a coincidence.
Jessica, I still want to have babies with your blog 😉
The only reason not to give credit is because you suck on your own and are trying to keep people from finding that out. Giving credit for an idea, which you run with and make your own, takes nothing away from the blogger and makes them look good.
So if he/she need to swipe ideas from other blogs, emails, twitters and so forth and so on – without giving credit people are going to find out the dirty lil secret that he/she sucks regardless of the lack of giving credit.
In the end it all comes out in the wash… and email, chat, twitter, whatever…
At the same time everything that is old is new again and people grow and change their minds. Need to rerant so they can retell everyone what the new rules are. It is enough to give one a migraine.
I think wendy said it best a while back, it isn’t that we need to get rid of all flame wars just we need new ones *G* (yes she didn’t say it quite like that)
Tis sad how much stupid shit I seem to retain and yet important things I can’t remember. go figure…
Very interesting post Holly – thank you 🙂 I try very hard to give credit to either the blog and/or the specific post that inspired me, mainly because I see it as the right thing to do. But if for some reason I didn’t, and was called out for it, I would correct it ASAP.
The only reason not to give credit is because you suck on your own and are trying to keep people from finding that out.
Sybil,
JenB loves Holly, but I love you.
It’s hard to say. My stock answer is “I know someone is being an asshole when it’s really blatant.” I’m not likely to get my panties in a twist over someone blogging about a topic I brought up on my blog first (I mean, the community is pretty incestuous after all). However if someone decided to start a “Great Western Drive” and say they came up with the idea all on their own – or they started posting rants under the name “Little Miss Crabby Pants” – I’m more likely to get pissy about it.
It’s all about levels.
That being said, life is short – and I know how cool I am even if some people don’t. Ha!
I agree with you though. A hat tip is always nice – and it’s a good way to spread the linky love around Blog Land.
plz to turn blind eye when I copy and paste this – including tags on some random blog.
ktnxbai.
*angelface*
The only reason not to give credit is because you suck on your own and are trying to keep people from finding that out.
What Sybil said.
IMO, if you’re starting a post off of someone else’s post, giving credit is due courtesy. Either link to the blog and/or give credit to the poster.
For me, I like discovering new-to-me bloggers so links or shout out to respective blogger gives me more reading content for future days.
I’ve got a question. There’s a meme going around and you’d like to participate in said meme so you do. You give the nod to whoever started the meme the first time you participate. When you continue to participate every week, are you still supposed to give a nod every week that you do it or is it okay to assume that everyone reading your blog already knows where you got it from?
I ask this because on my personal blog I participate in that It’s Tuesday, Where are you? meme and the very first time that I participated, I acknowledged where I found out about the meme and where it started. I don’t do that anymore so should I be doing that still? I got it off of those YA book blogs and I don’t want them thinking I stole their idea and all that.
I’m always saying things like, “as I commented on this other blog about a similar topic,” because some conversations DO overlap, and it’s good to let people know there are multiple discussions out there of the same topic. I even do that when the thread is months old, if I can find it. I like to link to other comment threads or blog posts, too; especially to point out smaller/lesser known blogs to the readers of the bigger ones.
I appreciated Jessice giving Maili and me a shout-out when she posted the Winsor list idea. I didn’t feel proprietary about it, but that was a sweet gesture. I think that remembering where (and from whom) you heard something specific or unique is an important courtesy to pay if you can, just in the Golden Rule sense of things. So far, I’ve been really impressed with the way bloggers will say in a post that it was inspired by a Twitter discussion. If you don’t remember, you can always admit that — at least then you don’t look like you’re trying to pretend that it’s your idea.
Thanks Kati for answering. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn’t stepping on anyone’s toes.
*snicker*
I love you, Holly!
Rowena- I don’t think the credit thing applies to memes. Sometimes it’s fun to see links of other ppl who’ve completed the meme, I never expect a blogger to know where it originally came from.
Thanks, JenB. =)
And Sybil, your way with words never fails to make me smile. I love it!
Orianna,
You’re one of the good ones then.
LOL @ Lime!
Tabitha,
Same here. I like discovering new blogs, that’s always fun.
More than professional courtesy, I think it’s basic good manners to acknowledge the source of an idea for a discussion or post.
Personally, I believe that, beyond the rudeness, it’s rather short-sighted to pretend ignorance and keep on posting topics as one’s own, when so many people have seen (or will soon see) the original blog post.
Like any other online behaviour, this too comes back to haunt the person who is rude or opportunistic enough to consistently fail to give credit.
(And while I believe I know who you are referring too, I’d love to know for sure 😀 nosey-parker that I am)