I’ve been Twittering today and the topic of Forced Seduction came up, because it was mentioned in a workshop that readers are craving Forced Seduction, a la Claiming the Courtesan.
My response was, “Forced Seduction? Srsly?”, because I’m sorry, but no. Most romance readers are NOT craving FS. Or at least this reader isn’t. Especially CtC Forced Seduction, which from what I understand is more like full on rape. What ensued was a conversation, via twitter, between Meljean, Ciara, Jaci Burton, Lauren Dane and myself about how that isn’t really the case. We don’t believe readers crave forced seduction. I especially don’t like that it was said that “readers” want FS.
Anyway, during the course of our twittering, I said I was going to put up a poll about it. Then I suckered Meljean into doing graphs w/ the results – her graphs rock muchly – and Jaci Burton got excited. Srsly, that’s how it happened! I can’t make this stuff up.
So here I am keeping up my end of the bargain (or whatever). I’d like to direct your attention to the sidebar, where I currently have a poll up: Are We As Readers Craving Forced Seduction?
I hope you’ll vote. Feel free to leave a comment here, too, with your thoughts on the subject. I do think FS has it’s place in romance (we’ve discussed this before) but I just can’t get over her telling everyone us readers are craving it. Now watch all of you prove me wrong….
ETA: Link to Forced Seduction post and to protect the innocent (and the not so innocent).
😀
I voted “no”, because I’m not *craving* forced seduction. If I come across a well-done forced seduction (where, through the hotness of his luvin’, a “no” becomes a “yes” (so that it’s consensual)) I don’t mind, and — depending on the book — think it can work really, really well.
But if CLAIMING THE COURTESAN is the model for “forced seduction,” then it’s a no. That wasn’t even forced seduction, IMO, because it was rape — completely non-consensual from start to finish. I’m definitely not craving rape in romance.
That also isn’t to say that a rape automatically makes me throw a book — overall, I enjoyed CtC, because I felt, within the story, the scene worked. But I don’t understand why we should pretty it up and call that scene “forced seduction.” It wasn’t. It was just forced sex.
Do I want a bunch of rapes showing up in romance? Do I crave rapes in romance? Hell NO.
What I think readers are craving, honestly, are well-written sex scenes that — whatever form they take — make sense to the story and mean something.
I voted no. I’m not craving it. I don’t think rape is sexy or romantic.
I also don’t think a manly man using his wiles to turn a no into a yes is forced seduction – it’s seduction and that can be very sexy in the right hands!
Do I think there are readers who want rape in their books? Yes. Do I think that means “readers are craving it” a’la Claiming The Courtesan, which is out and out rape – no I do not.
It is sexy for a man to use all his tools to seduce a woman. It’s sexy for a man to control himself and not simply harm a woman and rape her. A man using his smarts, his sex appeal, his charm to get a woman into bed in the context of a romance is totally hot.
IMO a man who gets off on rape is not a hero and that’s the bottom line for me.
I voted No, too. As Lauren says – it’s much sexier for a ‘hero’ to convince a woman to change her mind. Much hotter. But that’s not FORCED seduction, that’s just flat out seduction IMHO.
Forced Seduction? Yeah, I can just see some loser using that as a defence against Date Rape. No thank you. Forcing someone to submit to have sex is rape no matter what pretty words the author uses.
I voted no as well. I don’t think romance readers are “craving” FS, either.
I really think I dislike the word “forced” period, but I’m hesitant to say forced seduction and/or rape never work, because depending on the author/story, they can.
Still, I’m not looking for romance to return to the land of 1000 rapes. No thank you.
I also voted no.
And i think there’s a huge difference between seduction and anything that’s ‘forced’. Forced to me in any way shape or form is plain and simply rape, especially if the woman is not 100% consenting in the act.
Seduction is a man using the tools a man has (hehehe…tools) to seduce. In my opinion that’s a completely different scenario and there’s no force involved. That’s a woman being seduced. And oh man do I love scenes like that. That’s what I crave in my romance. More more more of that please!
I will vote no but to be difficult *eg* I must say I really liked CLAIMING THE COURTESAN.
WoOT! and go team me 😉
and I think the editor who I think was there? or in the talk rocks socks…
Of course I think michelle is full of hot air but sadly I have no respect for those who think trashing people in private tis ok but in public is bad form.
I know. I know. Sybil meet difficult. ::shrug:: bitch I may be at times but a liar – not so much.
I voted NO as well. “Forced Seduction” makes me uncomfortable. A hero who convinces or seduces his heroine to consent, on the other hand, is sexy. Odds are she wasn’t too steadfast in with her ‘No’ in the first place. 😉
I don’t “crave” forced seduction. That’s a very strange word to use in relation to forced seduction.
I’m a firm believer that there is a huge difference between forced seduction and rape. Like Sybil, I liked Claiming the Courtesan too.
I do not enjoy forced seduction and would probably not read that book unless it was an author that I adored.
Like you Holly, I don’t like the term ‘forced’ seduction. For me CTC was rape although I didn’t care because the heroine didn’t seem to care. In other words she went on and on about it in her head that by the time he did rape her I already knew it was going to happen.
That said, I have loved Katherine Sutcliffe and Anne Stuart for years. They have edgier heroes who don’t exactly ask for permission. Sutcliffe’s heroes beat themselves up for wanting the heroine while Stuart’s know the heroine is totally into them. So for me there is a danger there but never in a physical sense.
So I like angst and sexual tension – any time I’ve read something that people call ‘forced seduction’ I’ve been unmoved by the scene in question. Unless it’s those oldies – then I used to get rip roaring mad and yell at the heroine to clobber the guy.
CindyS – off to put my ‘no’ in.
K… so I asked Anna Campbell yesterday if she expected all this hoopla over the book, and that in particular. She said (and she is absolutely delightful, BTW) that she expected this book to be a completely unnoticed debut novel, as most are, and that while it was difficult and quite personal to write, she in no way expected the response she’s gotten over it. Interesting, no?
I also liked CtC–because the sex worked within the context of the story and fit the personalities of the characters, IMneverHO.
But as for ‘readers’ (that mythical monolithic majority) craving forced seduction?
Don’t think so.
I wonder though if perhaps a better moniker would be forceFUL seduction–wherein the hero focus all his will, charm, attention, what have you, on seducing the heroine.
A well written book/scene where the overbearing/arrogant/whatever-shorthand-for-alpha hero is concentrating his considerable will to the one goal (seduction) and where we the readers know that the heroine is just as attracted–whatever her reasons for resisting–can work very very well for me, but note that there is neither force nor coercion involved. Cajoling? Hell, bring it on! Blackmail, emotional or otherwise? Not so much.
If any of that made sense…
Lori,
That is extremely interesting. I’d love to sit down and talk to her about it. How awesome that you were able to.
Cindy,
As Jaci Burton said, it’s super hot when a man uses his tools to convince a woman of what she really wanted to begin with. 😉
Wow, that didn’t sound quite right, did it? Well, you know what I mean.
AL,
Well said. Not so down with the blackmail.
I read a book years and years ago where the hero used sex to humiliate the heroine – basically getting her turned on and then stepping back from her and saying, “Ha ha you”. I have never picked up another book by that author, and that particular story was ruined for me. I didn’t care what his reasons for acting that way were, I, as the reader, felt degraded and dirty just reading it…that was so not hot.
But I’ve read others where the heroine wasn’t there, was fighting herself and the hero kept pushing until she let go. That was so hot. 😛
That is my biggest pet peeve… when people mix up forced seducation and rape. CTC was rape rape rape.
I HATED that book. Worst book ever written.
Lets see that ‘hero’ do that to one of our daughters, sisters, or us, and still call it forced seduction,
Disgusting.
As for actual forced seduction, yeah, I admit to liking it. I don’t crave it though. So, I voted no.
🙂